Alan, thank`s again. the idea is to discuss this, with properly and enough time.

I think is needed a special meeting for that, because ROP are a main rules wich direct ALAC life, and we do not try so fast.

but, obviously I will respect the vote of mayority.

Carlos Dionisio Aguirreabogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina -
*54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423
www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar
http://ar.ageiadensi.org

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 15:02:18 -0500
To: carlosaguirre62@hotmail.com; alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org
From: alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca
Subject: RE: [ALAC] Rules of Procedure (RoP) re-write

Carlos, can I ask why you are asking to stop the RoP re-write, instead of simply deferring the re-write of the ExCom section? The intent to do a re-write preceded the ExCom decision, and (in some opinions) needs to be done in any case.

Alan

At 19/02/2009 02:08 PM, carlos aguirre wrote:

Alan:

thank you for your advice.
Yes, you have a point , my motion is definitly to stop the re-write the ROP, because we don´t know, because we didn`t vote FIRST if we want an Ex Com, because we don´t know, what exactly means, and what Ex Com will do, and what will be their obligations and faculties.

So my motion is : stop re-write the ROP and, ask and vote if Ex Com is needed.

Carlos Dionisio Aguirre

abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina -
*54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423
www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar
http://ar.ageiadensi.org

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:06:48 -0500
To: carlosaguirre62@hotmail.com; alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org
From: alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca
Subject: RE: [ALAC] Rules of Procedure (RoP) re-write

Carlos, at this point, the ALAC has voted for the creation and in that motion, instructed that more details rules be created. As Rapporteur, I am trying to follow those instructions. I also stated in my work plan that an overall RoP re-write was in my plan, and I had no objections raised to that.

So I am trying to do that job. I note that the ExCom issue is a SMALL part of the overall RoP.

If you feel that the ALAC should take some other immediate action (either to stop the re-write or abolish the ExCom with details on exactly what that means), I suggest that as an ALAC member, you make a motion to that effect.

Alan

At 19/02/2009 07:04 AM, carlos aguirre wrote:

Dear Alan.

Before talk about ROP changes, is neccessary as I said in last november, to decide first if Ex Com is a good idea.

I think particularly to impose "de facto" a new body, with only a few ALAC members deciding for all of us, and in charge to decide what issues are urgent or important is not a democratic way to stablish something like that.

But, I repeat, first of all is not legaly, because are not into ROP, and because was not voted the necessity of it creation.

my best

Carlos Dionisio Aguirre

abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina -

*54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423

www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar

http://ar.ageiadensi.org

> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:57:53 -0500

> To: alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org

> From: alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca

> Subject: [ALAC] Rules of Procedure (RoP) re-write

>

> We are clearly not going to have any time to discuss this as a group

> in Mexico City, but I would like to ask all of you to think about

> what you believe needs to be changed in any way. We have already

> identified: Rules associated with the ExCom and Performance

> Guidelines, but input on those is certainly welcome.

>

> I am also interested in hearing how detailed and exhaustive you

> believe the RoP should be.

>

> Input is welcome via e-mail (privately or to the list) and in person

> while in Mexico City.

>

> You can find the current version ALAC/2007/1/1.Rev10 in English

> French and Spanish at https://st.icann.org/alac/index.cgi?rules_of_procedure.

>

> Alan

>

> _______________________________________________

> ALAC mailing list

> ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org

> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann...

>

> At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org

> ALAC Working Wiki: http://st.icann.org/alac

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Alan:

thank you for your advice.

Yes, you have a point , my motion is definitly to stop the re-write the ROP, because we don´t know, because we didn`t vote FIRST if we want an Ex Com, because we don´t know, what exactly means, and what Ex Com will do, and what will be their obligations and faculties.

So my motion is : stop re-write the ROP and, ask and vote if Ex Com is needed.

Carlos Dionisio Aguirreabogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina -
*54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423
www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar
http://ar.ageiadensi.org

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:06:48 -0500
To: carlosaguirre62@hotmail.com; alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org
From: alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca
Subject: RE: [ALAC] Rules of Procedure (RoP) re-write

Carlos, at this point, the ALAC has voted for the creation and in that motion, instructed that more details rules be created. As Rapporteur, I am trying to follow those instructions. I also stated in my work plan that an overall RoP re-write was in my plan, and I had no objections raised to that.

So I am trying to do that job. I note that the ExCom issue is a SMALL part of the overall RoP.

If you feel that the ALAC should take some other immediate action (either to stop the re-write or abolish the ExCom with details on exactly what that means), I suggest that as an ALAC member, you make a motion to that effect.

Alan

At 19/02/2009 07:04 AM, carlos aguirre wrote:

Dear Alan.

Before talk about ROP changes, is neccessary as I said in last november, to decide first if Ex Com is a good idea.

I think particularly to impose "de facto" a new body, with only a few ALAC members deciding for all of us, and in charge to decide what issues are urgent or important is not a democratic way to stablish something like that.

But, I repeat, first of all is not legaly, because are not into ROP, and because was not voted the necessity of it creation.

my best

Carlos Dionisio Aguirre

abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina -
*54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423
www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar
http://ar.ageiadensi.org

> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:57:53 -0500
> To: alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org
> From: alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca
> Subject: [ALAC] Rules of Procedure (RoP) re-write
>
> We are clearly not going to have any time to discuss this as a group
> in Mexico City, but I would like to ask all of you to think about
> what you believe needs to be changed in any way. We have already
> identified: Rules associated with the ExCom and Performance
> Guidelines, but input on those is certainly welcome.
>
> I am also interested in hearing how detailed and exhaustive you
> believe the RoP should be.
>
> Input is welcome via e-mail (privately or to the list) and in person
> while in Mexico City.
>
> You can find the current version ALAC/2007/1/1.Rev10 in English
> French and Spanish at https://st.icann.org/alac/index.cgi?rules_of_procedure.
>
> Alan
>
> _______________________________________________
> ALAC mailing list
> ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org
> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann...
>
> At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org
> ALAC Working Wiki: http://st.icann.org/alac

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_________________________________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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Carlos, at this point, the ALAC has voted for the
creation and in that motion, instructed that more
details rules be created. As Rapporteur, I am
trying to follow those instructions. I also
stated in my work plan that an overall RoP
re-write was in my plan, and I had no objections raised to that.

So I am trying to do that job. I note that the
ExCom issue is a SMALL part of the overall RoP.

If you feel that the ALAC should take some other
immediate action (either to stop the re-write or
abolish the ExCom with details on exactly what
that means), I suggest that as an ALAC member,
you make a motion to that effect.

Alan

At 19/02/2009 07:04 AM, carlos aguirre wrote:
>Dear Alan.
>
>Before talk about ROP changes, is neccessary as
>I said in last november, to decide first if Ex Com is a good idea.
>
>I think particularly to impose "de facto" a new
>body, with only a few ALAC members deciding for
>all of us, and in charge to decide what issues
>are urgent or important is not a democratic way
>to stablish something like that.
>
>But, I repeat, first of all is not legaly,
>because are not into ROP, and because was not
>voted the necessity of it creation.
>
>
>my best
>
>
>
>Carlos Dionisio Aguirre
>
>
>
>abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina -
>*54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423
>www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar
>http://ar.ageiadensi.org
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:57:53 -0500
> > To: alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org
> > From: alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca
> > Subject: [ALAC] Rules of Procedure (RoP) re-write
> >
> > We are clearly not going to have any time to discuss this as a group
> > in Mexico City, but I would like to ask all of you to think about
> > what you believe needs to be changed in any way. We have already
> > identified: Rules associated with the ExCom and Performance
> > Guidelines, but input on those is certainly welcome.
> >
> > I am also interested in hearing how detailed and exhaustive you
> > believe the RoP should be.
> >
> > Input is welcome via e-mail (privately or to the list) and in person
> > while in Mexico City.
> >
> > You can find the current version ALAC/2007/1/1.Rev10 in English
> > French and Spanish at
> https://st.icann.org/alac/index.cgi?rules_of_procedure.
> >
> > Alan
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ALAC mailing list
> > ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org
> >
> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann...
> >
> > At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org
> > ALAC Working Wiki: http://st.icann.org/alac
>
>

At 19/02/2009 01:37 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
>Alan Greenberg wrote:
>>We are clearly not going to have any time to discuss this as a
>>group in Mexico City, but I would like to ask all of you to think
>>about what you believe needs to be changed in any way. We have
>>already identified: Rules associated with the ExCom and Performance
>>Guidelines, but input on those is certainly welcome.
>I thought that there was actually a proposal to eliminate the ExCom,
>in parallel to the effort to create rules to entrench it.

That may be so, but until it happens, documenting what is currently
in place is on the list.

And in addition to a call for elimination, there is also Adam's draft
rules on the table as well.

Alan

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At 1:37 AM -0500 2/19/09, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
>Alan Greenberg wrote:
>>We are clearly not going to have any time to discuss this as a
>>group in Mexico City, but I would like to ask all of you to think
>>about what you believe needs to be changed in any way. We have
>>already identified: Rules associated with the ExCom and Performance
>>Guidelines, but input on those is certainly welcome.
>I thought that there was actually a proposal to eliminate the ExCom,
>in parallel to the effort to create rules to entrench it.

I thought they were one in the same thing.

Following what was voted on last November, a motion would be proposed
to amend the rules of procedure so as to create an ExCom, and the
voting instructions would be that a no vote would be a vote to not
form (i.e. eliminate) the ExCom. Could of course be separated into
two votes, yes/no on the need for an ExCom, if yes proceed to vote on
the amendments to the rules of procedure.

I was asked to draft a motion and sent the first version to ALAC's
internal list in December. A copy of that mail below.

>
>>I am also interested in hearing how detailed and exhaustive you
>>believe the RoP should be.
>I would personally like the section related to recall overhauled.
>But, as you said, I was planning to leave that until after the
>Summit.

The recall of NomCom appointed members should be coordinated with the
NomCom review, which seems to have gone silent since the Paris
meeting, and perhaps the NomCom itself (the selection process is
underway now).

I agree there should be recall and replacement methods for NomCom
appointees (replacement being a reason to talk to the NomCom as they
have a means to replace people during the first year of their term
but not the second) and there has been too much delay in putting this
in place.

Adam

>- Evan
>

At 9:03 PM +0900 1/7/09, Adam Peake wrote:
>
>Last month I wrote draft amendments for ALAC rules and procedures to
>create a new committee, an ExCom (renamed Administration Committee
>in the draft.)
>
>Any comment or amendments please?
>
>I did this in response to email on the At Large list, a motion
>calling for the immediate dissolution of the ALAC Executive
>Committee, we should move forward with it.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Adam
>
>
>>Delivered-To: ajp@glocom.ac.jp
>>Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:53:21 +0900
>>To: ALAC Internal List
>>From: Adam Peake
>>Subject: Re: [ALAC-Internal] Fwd: Re: [At-Large] Motion for the immediate
>> dissolution of the ALAC Executive Committee
>>X-BeenThere: alac-internal@atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>Reply-To: ALAC Internal List
>>List-Id: ALAC Internal List
>>
>>List-Unsubscribe:
>>,
>>
>>
>>
>>List-Archive:
>>
>>List-Post:
>>List-Help:
>>
>>List-Subscribe:
>>,
>>
>>
>>
>>Sender: alac-internal-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>
>>>Adam, please do have a go at it.
>>
>>
>>OK. I am not sure it's good practise for someone in two minds
>>about voting for a motion to be drafting the motion.
>>
>>I voted for the motion in November because I thought we needed to
>>recognize the committee already existed, to provide limits to its
>>powers, and begin a discussion of whether there should be such a
>>committee and to vote on it.
>>
>>The motions passed during our November meeting were:
>>
>>Motion 1.
>>
>>1. The ALAC create a 4-member Executive Committee composed of the
>>four ALAC Officers. Until such time as a more refined specification
>>be defined, the Executive Committee shall have no powers other than
>>those explicitly granted by the ALAC, save that in urgent
>>situations, the Executive Committee may make decisions on behalf of
>>the ALAC, such decisions communicated to the ALAC prior to or at
>>the time of decision, and to be ratified at the next ALAC meeting.
>>
>>Motion 2.
>>
>>1. The ALAC expand the Executive Committee to five people. The
>>Executive Committee shall be composed of the four ALAC Officers and
>>one additional ALAC member.
>>
>>2. The ALAC redefine the two positions of Vice-Chair and the
>>position of Rapporteur, and the associated voting processes to
>>ensure that the Chair, the two Vice-Chairs, and the Rapporteur all
>>represent different ICANN regions, the detailed Rules of Procedures
>>to be approved prior to the 2009 Officer elections;
>>
>>3. Following the election of the four officers, the ALAC shall
>>nominate and elect an ALAC member from the as-yet un-represented
>>ICANN region to the fifth Executive Committee position.
>>
>> - - -
>>
>>I think the committee is misnamed, 'Executive' implies powers the
>>motion passed on November clearly does not grant, so I've named it
>>Administration Committee.
>>
>>To meet the regional requirement, suggest rule 2.1 be amended and a
>>new 2.2. added to reflect this requirement. Seems the easiest way
>>to meet the requirements of the 2nd motion is to just add a third
>>vice-chair (and this avoids writing new descriptions of the
>>Vice-Chairs and Rapporteur as the 2nd motion seems to suggest.)
>>Rules on geographic diversity to be followed during the next
>>Officer elections or any vacancy before then.
>>
>>2.1, current:
>>
>>2.1 The ALAC shall elect a Chair, at least two (2) Vice-Chairs and
>>a Rapporteur by the mechanism outlined in Rule 10.
>>
>>Proposed:
>>
>>2.1 The ALAC shall elect a Chair, three (3) Vice-Chairs and a
>>Rapporteur by the mechanism outlined in Rule 10.
>>
>>Propose new rule 2.2.
>>
>>2.2. All Officers must be from different geographic regions.
>>
>>(rest of 2 to be re-numbered accordingly. Note, as ICANN's regional
>>structure is been reviewed, this structure might be short lived.)
>>
>>Someone familiar with ALAC voting procedures and voting procedures
>>generally should re-write rule 10. I do not have any suggestion how
>>to ensure geographic diversity among the elected Officers. It will
>>make the slate complicated. For the time being suggest new rule
>>(10.3?) as follows:
>>
>>10.3. All Officers must be from different geographic regions.
>>
>>And someone please work out how to achieve this.
>>
>>Amend rule 10.9, adding the following sentence:
>>
>>The vacancy must be filled by a person from the same geographic
>>region as the departing Officer.
>>
>>
>>Description of the Administration Committee
>>
>>Administration Committee
>>
>>An Administration Committee will coordinate the work of the ALAC
>>and support the Chair in administrative and organizational matters
>>of the Committee.
>>
>>The Administration Committee will be composed of the five ALAC
>>Officers: Chair, three (3) Vice-Chairs and Rapporteur.
>>
>>Administration Committee will support the Chair in duties described
>>in rules 12.6, 12.8, 12.10, and 13.2 of the ALAC Rules and
>>Procedures (as adopted 8 April 2008). The Administration Committee
>>shall have no powers other than those explicitly granted by the
>>ALAC, save that in urgent situations, the Administration Committee
>>may make decisions on behalf of the ALAC. All such decisions will
>>be communicated to the ALAC prior to or at the time of decision,
>>and to be ratified at the next ALAC meeting.
>>
>>The Administration Committee will not undertake any Duties of the
>>Chair other than those stated above, or undertake any duties and
>>responsibilities of other working groups and sub-committees of the
>>ALAC.
>>
>>Administration Committee discussion list will have a public archive.
>>
>> - - - -
>>
>>Hope this helps.
>>
>>Adam
>>
>>

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